Tanrısal Mesaj: Oksimoron

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Siz böyle yazınca tüm bilimsel veriler ve mantık kuralları çürüdü zaten :)
 

bilgelikyolunda

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Bilimsel veriler çürümesi senin bilimle alakası olmayan saçma zırvaların ben yazmadan önce çürütüldü
Yazdıklarım neden sonuç ilişkisinin varlığı ve termodinamiğin ikinci yasasına göre evrenin ezeli olamaması gibi bilimsel verilere dayanıyor.

Bunların bilimle alakası olmayan saçma zırvalar olduğunu iddia ediyorsanız diyecek sözüm yok :)
 

bilgelikyolunda

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Bu kısmından yanlış olduğu anlaşılıyor çünkü bu yazdığın Heisenberg ilkesine aykırı :)
Neden sonuç ilişkisinin var olmadığını iddia ediyorsanız, Yaratıcının varlığına itiraz edilecek bir şey zaten kalmaz.

Pek tabii Yaratıcı kainatı nedensiz yaratmış olabilir. :)
madde ezeli olmak ZORUNDADIR bu hem entropiden hemde Heisenberg ilkesinden dolayı :)
A-Heisenberg ilkesinin maddenin ezeliyetiyle alakası yok. Var olduğunu iddia ediyorsanız buyurun izah edin.

B-Entropiden dolayı zaten madde ezeli olamaz.

1- Evrendeki entropi geri çevrilemeyecek şekilde sürekli artmaktadır.

2- Buna göre evrende bir gün termodinamik denge oluşacak ve “ısı ölümü” yaşanacaktır. Kısacası evren ebedi değildir, bir sonu vardır.

3- Sonsuz zamanda, evrende termodinamik dengeye gelinmesi ve hareketin durması gerekir.

4- Şu anda hareketin devam ettiğine tanıklık etmekteyiz.

5- Demek ki evren sonsuzdan beri yoktur, dolayısıyla evrenin bir başlangıcı vardır.
Madde değilde enerji diyelim biz ona.
Enerji ilk sebep olamaz; çünkü irade sahibi değil.

Yazmıştık:

Yaratıcı irade sahibi olmasaydı kendini etkileyip bir şey yaratmasına sebep olacak hiçbir şey olmadığı için hiçbir şey var olmazdı. Bir şeyler var. Öyleyse Yaratıcı irade sahibi yani Tanrı.
 

kavak

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Neden sonuç ilişkisinin var olmadığını iddia ediyorsanız, Yaratıcının varlığına itiraz edilecek bir şey zaten kalmaz.
Pek tabii Yaratıcı kainatı nedensiz yaratmış olabilir. :)
A-Heisenberg ilkesinin maddenin ezeliyetiyle alakası yok. Var olduğunu iddia ediyorsanız buyurun izah edin.
B-Entropiden dolayı zaten madde ezeli olamaz.
1- Evrendeki entropi geri çevrilemeyecek şekilde sürekli artmaktadır.
2- Buna göre evrende bir gün termodinamik denge oluşacak ve “ısı ölümü” yaşanacaktır. Kısacası evren ebedi değildir, bir sonu vardır.
3- Sonsuz zamanda, evrende termodinamik dengeye gelinmesi ve hareketin durması gerekir.
4- Şu anda hareketin devam ettiğine tanıklık etmekteyiz.
5- Demek ki evren sonsuzdan beri yoktur, dolayısıyla evrenin bir başlangıcı vardır.
@Science ´e boş beleş yanıt vererek türkürdüklerini bir güzel yalamış oldun.
Afiyet olsun!
 

Science

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Neden sonuç ilişkisinin var olmadığını iddia ediyorsanız, Yaratıcının varlığına itiraz edilecek bir şey zaten kalmaz.

Pek tabii Yaratıcı kainatı nedensiz yaratmış olabilir. :)
Bunu diyerek bilimden nekadar habersiz olduğunu zaten ilan ettin Heisenberg ilkesinin belirsizliğinden dolayı tanrı olmadan evren oluşur
ayrıca aynısı yaratıcı için geçerli olamaz. çünkü Heisenberg ilkesi atom altı parçacıkların kendiliğindenliğiyle alakalı dolayısıyla bunu yaratıcı da sebepsiz yaratmış olabilir dediğine göre bu konuda bilgin 0
 

Science

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Entropiden dolayı zaten madde ezeli olamaz.

1- Evrendeki entropi geri çevrilemeyecek şekilde sürekli artmaktadır.

2- Buna göre evrende bir gün termodinamik denge oluşacak ve “ısı ölümü” yaşanacaktır. Kısacası evren ebedi değildir, bir sonu vardır.

3- Sonsuz zamanda, evrende termodinamik dengeye gelinmesi ve hareketin durması gerekir.

4- Şu anda hareketin devam ettiğine tanıklık etmekteyiz.

5- Demek ki evren sonsuzdan beri yoktur, dolayısıyla evrenin bir başlangıcı vardır.
Yazmıştık :
-Heisenberg ilkesinin maddenin ezeliyetiyle alakası yok. Var olduğunu iddia ediyorsanız buyurun izah edin.
Belirsizlik olduğu yerde enerji ezeli olmak zorundadır
-Entropiden dolayı zaten madde ezeli olamaz.

1- Evrendeki entropi geri çevrilemeyecek şekilde sürekli artmaktadır.

2- Buna göre evrende bir gün termodinamik denge oluşacak ve “ısı ölümü” yaşanacaktır. Kısacası evren ebedi değildir, bir sonu vardır.
Sonu olması ezeli olmaması anlamına gelmez. Ezeli kavramının anlamını öğren öyle gel paşam.
 

Science

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Enerji ilk sebep olamaz; çünkü irade sahibi değil.

Yazmıştık:

Yaratıcı irade sahibi olmasaydı kendini etkileyip bir şey yaratmasına sebep olacak hiçbir şey olmadığı için hiçbir şey var olmazdı. Bir şeyler var. Öyleyse Yaratıcı irade sahibi yani Tanrı.
1000000 kere Yazmıştık: Heisenberg ilkesine göre illa yaratıcı ve irade sahibi varlık olması gerekmez.
 

vostok

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bilgelikyolunda termodinamiğin 2. kanununun ne olduğunu/olmadığını, neye tekabül ettiğini/etmediğini kavrayabilmiş değil. :)

Ya da işine gelmiyor.

Evren/madde/enerji ezeli olamaz şeklinde çorba gibi kullanmasından belli kavramları farklı yerlerde, bazen aynı yerde. Daha önce sorduydum bunu bir yerde.. Hangisi...?!

Termodinamiğin kendince işine gelen kısımlarını kullanıp, diğer kısımlarını yine kendince lağvediyor.

Ne kuantum ne de termodinamik hiçliğe, (hatta mutlak tekilliğe) müsaade ediyor. Hiçlik Yok! Evrimsel antropik yanılsamalarımızın en büyüğü bu gibi geliyor bana. Bir diğeri de neden-sonuç ilişkisi..Bir diğeri başlangıç ve son kavramları...Hatta sonsuzluk..

Bu yanılsamaları bir kazanın içine atıp karıştırdığınız zaman içinden bir çeşit tanrı çıkıyor. Malzeme ne? Yanılsama.

Önce bunu sindirecekler. Bir insan bu kavrayışa erdikten sonra, gerisi çorap söküğü gibi gelir zaten. Eğer o insan samimi ise.
 
Yazan tarafından düzenlendi:

bilgelikyolunda

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Heisenberg ilkesinin belirsizliğinden dolayı tanrı olmadan evren oluşur
Bunu söyleyip duruyorsunuz ama bilimsel kaynak isteyince cernde nihai teoriye ulaşıldığını iddia ettiğini söylediğiniz birinin videosundan başka bir şey atamıyorsunuz.

Nihai teoriye ulaşılmış olsaydı yer yerinden oynardı.

Cernde nihai teoriye ulaşıldığına dair bilimsel olmasını bırakın tek bir haber makalesi bile gösteremezsiniz.

Bu adamlar size fena halde yalan söyleyip sizi aptal yerine mi koyuyorlar yoksa siz mi yalan söyleyip bizi aptal yerine koymaya çalışıyorsunuz?
Belirsizlik olduğu yerde enerji ezeli olmak zorundadır
Böyle bir zorunluluk yok, bunu siz uydurdunuz.

Bu sizin uydurmanız değilse buyurun bunu izah eden yazılı bilimsel kaynak atınız.
Sonu olması ezeli olmaması anlamına gelmez. Ezeli kavramının anlamını öğren öyle gel paşam.
Kırptığınız 3, 4 ve 5. maddeler sondan değil başlangıçtan bahsediyor.

Algılayamadınız mı yoksa bilerek yazılanları kırpıp çarpıtıyor musunuz?

3- Sonsuz zamanda, evrende termodinamik dengeye gelinmesi ve hareketin durması gerekir.

4- Şu anda hareketin devam ettiğine tanıklık etmekteyiz.

5- Demek ki evren sonsuzdan beri yoktur, dolayısıyla evrenin bir başlangıcı vardır.
 

bilgelikyolunda

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Evren/madde/enerji ezeli olamaz şeklinde çorba gibi kullanmasından belli kavramları farklı yerlerde, bazen aynı yerde. Daha önce sorduydum bunu bir yerde.. Hangisi...?!
Hayır ilk defa sorduğunuzu görüyorum ve hemen cevap veriyorum:

Hepsi.

Evren ve maddenin ezeli olamaması termodinamiğin ikinci yasasıyla ilgili.

Enerjinin ezeli olamaması ise mantık kurallarıyla ilgili:

Yazmıştık:

Enerji ezeli olan ilk sebep olamaz; çünkü irade sahibi değil.

Yaratıcı irade sahibi olmasaydı kendini etkileyip bir şey yaratmasına sebep olacak hiçbir şey olmadığı için hiçbir şey var olmazdı. Bir şeyler var. Öyleyse Yaratıcı irade sahibi yani Tanrı.

Sonuç olarak ortada çorba gibi kullandığımız kavramlar yok, siz yazılanları tam takip etmiyor veya algılayamıyorsanız bu sizin probleminiz
Ne kuantum ne de termodinamik hiçliğe, (hatta mutlak tekilliğe) müsaade ediyor. Hiçlik Yok!
Evren için termodinamik açısından bu dedikleriniz doğru.

Termodinamiğin evrenin başlangıcından önce de geçerli olduğunu iddia ediyorsanız bunu kanıtlamanız gerekir.

Bu yüzden ben termodinamiği evrenin başlangıcına kadar kullanıp sonrasında mantık kurallarına göre hareket ediyorum.

Kuantuma gelince bunlar da kuantum parçacıkları var olduğundan beri geçerli. Kuantum parçacıkları yokken kuantum yasalarının geçerli olduğunu iddia ediyorsanız bunu ispat etmeniz gerekir.

Kuantum parçacıkları da ilk sebep olan ezeli Yaratıcı olamaz.

Linki incelerseniz aynen şöyle yazıyor:

"Kuantum Fiziği dahilinde Kuantum Dalgalanma (veya Kuantum Çalkalanma, İng: "Quantum Fluctuation"), uzayın belli bir noktasında, Werner Heisenberg'ün tanımladığı Belirsizlik İlkesi dahilinde, enerji miktarındaki geçici değişmedir. Bu olay, enerji korunumu ilkesinin ihlal edilebileceğini göstermektedir. Ancak bu ihlal; sadece çok küçük zaman aralıklarında olabilmektedir.

Buna rağmen fizikçiler, bu ihlalin yapıldığı anda var olan koşullara bağlı olarak sürenin uzatılabileceğini ve hatta, Evren'i yaratabilecek bir baloncuğun yoktan oluşup genişleyebileceğini ileri sürmektedir." diyor. Normalde çok küçük zaman aralığında olan şeyin süresini uzatan sebep nedir? Bu değişim dışarıdan bir müdahale ile olduysa demek ki kuantum dalgalanmaları haricinde bu dalgalanmalara etki eden bir sebep var, öyle değil mi?
Aşağıdaki linkte konu edilen bilimsel makalede aynen şöyle diyor:

"Özet olarak, bu makalede evrenin hiçlikten, kendi kendine (spontane olarak) yaratılabileceğinin matematiksel bir kanıtını sunduk. Küçük bir gerçek vakum balonu, metadengeli sahte vakumda meydana gelen bir kuantum dalgalanmayla yaratıldığında, eğer ki düzenleme faktörü p, -2'ye ya da 4'e eşitse eksponansiyel olarak (giderek hızlanan biçimde) genişleyebilir. Bu sayede, erken evren geri döndürülemez biçimde var olur. Burada, kuantum potansiyelinin, baloncuğun eksponansiyel olarak büyümesi için gereken gücü verdiğini gösterdik. Dolayısıyla, erken evrenin doğumu, tamamen kuantum mekanizmaları tarafından belirlenmektedir.

Kişi; zaman, uzay ve maddenin erken evren içinde hiçlikten nasıl var olduğunu sorabilir. Baloncuğun eksponansiyel genişlemesiyle, uzay ve zamanın oluşacağı şüphesizdir. Heisenberg'ün Belirsizlik İlkesi'ne göre, kuantum dalgalanmaları sonucu sanal parçacıklar oluşacaktır. Genel olarak konuşacak olursak, sanal bir parçacık, doğumundan hemen sonra yok olacaktır. Ancak tek bir çifte ait 2 sanal parçacık, yok oluşlarından hemen önce, baloncuğun eksponansiyel genişlemesi nedeniyle ayrılabilir. Bu nedenle, vakum balonu eksponansiyel olarak genişlerken büyük miktarda gerçek parçacık oluşur. Baloncuğun eksponansiyel genişlemesiyle oluşan parçacık yaratılışının karmaşık matematiksel hesaplamalarını, ilerleyen çalışmalarımızda göstereceğiz"


Şimdi soru şu:

Normalde düzenleme faktörü p, -2'ye ya da 4'e eşit olmadığı için sanal parçacıklar doğumlarından hemen sonra yok olmaktadır. Peki ne oldu da düzenleme faktörü -2 ya da 4 oldu ve sonuç olarak evren oluştu?

Buna sebep Yaratıcıdır deyip kestirip atmıyorum. Kuantum dalgalanma haricinde ortamda başka şey/şeylerin de mevcudiyetini gösterdiği için kuantum dalgalanmaya ezeli ilk sebep diyemeyeceğimizi gösteriyorum.
Bu yanılsamaları bir kazanın içine atıp karıştırdığınız zaman içinden bir çeşit tanrı çıkıyor. Malzeme ne? Yanılsama.

Önce bunu sindirecekler. Bir insan bu kavrayışa erdikten sonra, gerisi çorap söküğü gibi gelir zaten. Eğer o insan samimi ise.
Bunlar siz yanılsama dediniz diye şıp diye yanılsama olmaz.

Önce bunu sindireceksiniz. Bu kavrayışa erdikten sonra, gerisi çorap söküğü gibi gelir zaten. Eğer samimi iseniz :)
 
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Normalde düzenleme faktörü p, -2'ye ya da 4'e eşit olmadığı için sanal parçacıklar doğumlarından hemen sonra yok olmaktadır. Peki ne oldu da düzenleme faktörü -2 ya da 4 oldu ve sonuç olarak evren oluştu?
Videoda bunu anlatıyor bunu anlatan Heisenberg ilkesi neden izlemekte ısrar edyorsun
 

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